The Source With Kaitlan Collins : CNNW : November 27, 2024 6:00pm-7:01pm PST : Free Borrow & Streaming : Internet Archive (2024)

you've seen so far? >> the balloons. >> what is your name? >> my name is mary melita. >> and how old are you if you don't mind me asking? >> no. 98. i tell everybody now. >> you look much younger than that thank you. have you ever seen all the balloons being blown up before? >> no, i never, never did. >> this is amazing. >> this is the first time i've been. you know, that this parade, the first one was exactly 100 years ago. really so you're 98. >> so you were here for the third one? >> i am from colombia. >> and where in colombia? >> medellin. >> medellin is a beautiful city. >> of course it is. you should come to see it. >> well, i've been there and it's beautiful. that's how i know that so what's your favorite balloon? what's the most beautiful balloon? >> i do love dora the exploradora because my daughter minnie mouse is 60ft tall. >> this gives you an idea? i'm only about as tall as her nose but she's not the tallest balloon that's ever been

erica hill and me tomorrow morning. we're going to be live along the parade route for the ultimate thanksgiving morning watch party. thanksgiving in america. it starts at 8 a.m. eastern. the news continues. the source with kaitlan collins starts now from the source tonight. >> fear spreading across the u.s. government as elon musk publicly highlights little known government employees and positions he wants slashed. terrifying. federal workers turned targets of the richest man in the world. also, at least eight of donald trump's cabinet picks and appointees have been targeted with bomb threats or swatting what the fbi is saying tonight. and there's been a lot of concern and urgency over rfk jr.. s controversial stances from vaccines to milk to taking fluoride out of america's drinking water. our source

tonight takes us behind the science and says there's a better way to have those conversations. i'm boris sanchez in for kaitlan collins. and this is the source workers in the federal government might have been nervous when president-elect donald trump announced the creation of doge, the department of government efficiency. but now there's a new fear becoming the target of one of its founders, who also happens to be the billionaire owner of space x, tesla and x. last week, in between a litany of other messages, elon musk reposted a pair of posts that called out by name people holding for relatively obscure government positions. the information is available through public online databases, but targeting people in front of his more than 200 million followers on x is now terrifying. federal workers some current federal employees are telling cnn the threat of

being in musk's crosshairs might even drive them from their jobs entirely. they're afraid of being physically threatened. musk has gained more power than he had already since election day becoming a fixture at the side of the president elect with input on transition decisions and even sitting in on trump's call with ukraine's president volodymyr zelenskyy. it's a relationship and an influence that some have questioned. but former trump aide steve bannon says, quote elon and i disagree on some things, but elon deserves his place at the table. look, he stroked $150 million check for the ground game, which is not sexy at the exact moment we needed it. he came in with the money and the professionals to be brutally frank. it's the reason we won and trump's rewarded musk's since by naming him co-chair of doge along with vivek ramaswamy. both of them getting big shout outs at mar-a-lago elon musk.

>> elon likes this place. i can't get him out of here. he just likes this place. and you have vivek ramaswamy he's working with elon on efficiency. they're working on efficiency, among other things, and they're going to be saving a lot of money and making our country stronger and better now, musk and ramaswamy are expected on capitol hill next week, when speaker mike johnson says they'll address house and senate republicans to discuss, quote, major reform ideas. >> my inside source on this story is everett kelley. he's the national president of the american federation of government employees. he represents more than 800,000 federal workers. everett, thank you so much for being with us tonight. you say that these threats from musk are designed to terrorize federal workers. i wonder what you're hearing from them well thank you for having me. >> first of all, you know these threats, you know they are

uncalled for first of all, real leaders do not behave like this, right? real leaders don't terrorize and instill fear in americans. uh singling out individual workers is an attempt to instill fear in federal employees. and it won't work. i don't believe the american people want to waste their tax dollars going toward the types of behavior like this, either. now, our members have been here for 90 years under several presidents and political parties, government workers are no stranger to criticism uh, one third, uh, matter of fact, about 642,000 of federal workers, uh that i represent are veterans and the veterans don't bow down to the first stroke of criticism while criticism is understandable, you know, when we start attacking individuals, that's a problem no one and i say no one should attack individuals. try to prove a point. that's just not right. and the workforce that i represent will not cower down. they will not run away,

but they will stand there and stand up for their rights. and it just won't work i do wonder, everett, what you make of the substance of what musk was getting at with some of those tweets when he talks about positions like uh, advisor on climate diversification. >> i mean there's this gallup poll that finds a majority of americans, 55% of them believe the government simply does too much. do you think that this efficiency department should get a fair shot at trying to address some of that you know i don't i don't have an issue with, uh efficiency. >> i think that you know, we need to look at efficiency but i can tell you where we can start. you know because efficiency is something that we need to really consider with the the proposal is to i think, cut 75% of government. uh under the department of government efficiency and the point of the matter is, is unimaginable. uh

there will be drastic impacts right? not only on the workers but on the services that the american people rely upon for example, we're talking about cutting 75% of the workers at the department of veteran affairs. those aren't washington bureaucrats. we're talking about cutting doctors and nurses and those who schedule appointments and administrative benefits for the american veterans. you know, where mr. musk need to focus you know, is about $759 billion that the government paid to service contracts. right? just service contracts. now, that's compared to $270 billion that goes out to federal employees and pay and benefit each year, not contracts for materials and equipment and planes. you know, and i'm asking every american to convey this to their elected official and ask them to really look at what the federal employees are doing to provide the services for the american people versus government

contract. that's what we can start working and looking as you know, elon musk is on the other side of a number of lucrative government contracts for spacex and other ventures that he's had. >> i wonder what you make of his relationship with the federal government and whether this presents a conflict of interest. >> you know, in my opinion, it certainly presents a conflict of interest. i mean, you know, are you going to, uh, scrutinize the people that regulates you? i mean, it's it's common sense to me. it's definitely a conflict of interest. >> everett kelley. we have to leave the conversation there. very much appreciate you sharing your perspective with us. >> thank you sir. >> now to my sources. cnn political commentator bakari sellers, republican strategist and former director of communications for the 2020 trump campaign, erin perrine, and professor at the university of baltimore school of law, kim whaley. thank you all for being with us. erin, first to you. there's obviously an argument

to be made for making the government more efficient. i do wonder if targeting individual federal workers is the most efficient way to do that. is it even appropriate i think that we all know the answer to that is no. >> it's not appropriate doxxing people. we're seeing it on both sides right now. right you're seeing members of the trump cabinet that are being targeted that swatted, that they're having bomb threats called to their house. and then we're putting out the names of federal employees. true. all of that is publicly available. but even in the small world that i've worked in, it's sometimes not that small. i've received online threats. it's not fun. it's not okay. it makes you uncomfortable. it makes you nervous. it makes you wonder if that person in the crowd is somebody who might know who you are and who hates you. it gets you second guessing a lot of things. so people in power really do need to be careful about sharing that kind of information. when you have a large platform. yes, there is a major case for government efficiency and yes, i'm sure

there are plenty of programs and employees that can be cut to make sure that we are spending taxpayer dollars more appropriately, but we can't do that if we get off mission by pointing people out by name in this fashion, because there are a lot of very angry people on the internet. >> bakari, i'm curious to get your perspective on this in part because you heard a moment ago how trump ally steve bannon sees it, that musk deserves not only a seat at the table, but but influence for helping trump win how far do you suspect that influence goes when he's going after individual federal workers? that let's be honest, aren't really responsible for the contracts that the government makes? generally there are a few points to be made. >> i think, first and foremost, we know that this trump presidency won't have any guardrails. we know that to be true. whether or not it's fbi background checks or whether or not it's kind of limiting their ability from the supreme court. we know that those guardrails simply won't exist. but i also i just have to give

some props to susie wiles here for a moment because she put vivek ramaswamy and elon musk kind of out to pasture. she put him in the kids playground. she put him over there in the sandbox. doge for example, has no statutory authority has no budget, has no employees, and all they can do is is literally just go on on twitter and say we should do x, y and z. and yes, i do believe that they're going too far by targeting individual employees. but doge has the same amount of authority that i have right now in columbia, south carolina, as a democrat who voted for kamala harris so that that's first, if you think a united states senator is going to listen to elon musk or vivek ramaswamy on what they should cut, then that's just pure lunacy. so that that that's kind of the first thing. but to to go back to this blur of where the lines are, i find the hypocrisy of many republicans on the fact that elon musk grew a multi trillion dollar business off the back of american taxpayers

through subsidies and grants, and if you want to start with eliminating those government programs, if you want to start with cuts, start with space x, start with tesla, start with every other company, the boring company, i think it's called start with these grants and subsidies that go to elon musk because for me, that is somewhat of the of of just that bit of irony and that bit of hypocrisy which makes people frown upon what government is today i wonder, from a legal perspective, if musk has exposed himself to some risk by going after these individuals? >> well possibly there are potential civil remedies that would a private citizen could bring. i think he knows going into this administration that pretty soon the hands of justice at the federal level, the criminal justice system are going to be controlled by donald trump. and the supreme court has given donald trump carte blanche effectively to abuse the criminal justice

system. under this immunity ruling. but it's really, i think ironic. we're having a conversation about what elon musk is going to do to the federal government. he was not elected he's not even being nominated for an actual position, as was indicated, doge could not be created without an act of congress. so what we're seeing is not only massive pay to play steve bannon saying, listen, he got us elected, so we owe him something. a private individual but also blurring the lines around the transition. national security, the the communications between the trump transition and the biden administration, all of these, um, there are many sort of holes in the in the system that donald trump is pushing and exploiting. and i think that's going to come back to not just haunt federal workers, but haunt the structure of government itself. moving forward. >> it does seem like he has a receptive audience, not only

with donald trump, but with republicans and with elon musk and vivek ramaswamy coming to capitol hill next week you sort of alluded to a question of the constitutionality of doge, whether it's constitutional or not it seems like he might have sway over a congress that's now led in both chambers by republicans. >> yeah. you know again, back to the immunity decision. i don't think we can overstate the power of law enforcement and prosecutorial power and investigative power. um, over across not only congress, state legislatures media individual federal workers and the of course, the republicans in congress understand that if they want to have their own power secured, they need to make nice nice with the president elect incoming. and so i don't think we're going to see a lot of pushback with this, this particular congress. and of course, that's how the supreme the constitution is structured, that we've got branches that check the other branches question right now is

who's going to check donald trump yeah, it is an outstanding question. >> i do wonder, erin, as we're getting this news that facebook founder mark zuckerberg met with donald trump at mar-a-lago meta, the broader company the umbrella under which facebook falls under, confirmed that today it seems like billionaires are really leaning into the idea that they can court donald trump and perhaps, perhaps get some influence. i wonder what you make of his visit i think it makes a lot of sense. >> i think that if you're any business leader in the united states engaging in a thoughtful conversation with the president elect and his incoming administration about your priorities, about the government's priorities, and about the american people's priorities, that's a good thing to do. it's clear that, you know, zuckerberg didn't didn't endorse in this campaign, but zuckerberg were a big part of previous campaigns there's been concerns about shadowbanning and conservatives on social media. these are good conversations for people to be have no matter what. and it

shows that there's much more of a business appetite for a conversation with donald trump as the president elect going into 2024, than i think you saw in 2016. people are taking this really seriously, and they should. >> and my first thought was that he might be trying to broker that cage match with elon musk, that they never fulfilled. bakari, on a more serious note, one thing that elon musk has raised about is diversity, equity and inclusion in government. dei at one point, he called it another word for racism and today we're seeing trump's pick to lead the pentagon. pete hegseth replying nope to dei. in the military, this was a reply, a one word reply to a clip on x of an air force official saying that dei helps the u.s. military have the most capable forces on the planet what's your reaction i mean, i think that elon musk and one of the biggest fears that people have, which is being realized, is that he really wants to turn america into pre 1990 south africa and you you look at elon

musk and some of the things that his own parents have said about him and kind of coming into his own right now, you see, with the xenophobia or the language that he uses to harken back to those days um, it makes people have these palpitations and fear. >> the fact is, i mean, you have people who say, now when they get on an airplane that those pilots must be dei hires simply because of the color of their skin i believe that that individuals who can build rockets are geniuses. i believe people who can take individuals to mars or geniuses. it doesn't mean that you can't be stupid or ignorant or ignorant when it comes to issues of race or issues of making sure that people feel safe or comfortable in their own skin in this country there's nothing about elon musk and what he says, regardless of how much money he has, which represents what abraham lincoln calls the better angels of our nature. and so his thumbprint is going to be on this government for the next four years. i read a semafor article today about the reason that chinese state media is fearing

people leaving x because of their investment, and going to other social media networks because of the influence they have over elon musk history books are going to write about the fact that elon musk took this country backwards, um, that my father nearly died in this country in 1968, being shot by law enforcement, fighting for rights of people who look like me to be sitting in front of you today. and elon musk is working hard to take us backwards the elections have consequences, so god bless you and your state down at mar-a-lago you get four years of influence and then we have to get this country back on track bakari sellers, erin perrine, kim whaley, appreciate all of your perspectives. >> thanks for being with us tonight and happy thanksgiving next more trump cabinet picks. current and former announcing that they too have been the targets of pipe bomb threats others involved in swatting incidents. we have the latest from the fbi and president-elect trump. just appointed this man for a critical foreign policy role. can he help end the war in

ukraine? we'll be right back supersize the celebration of america's favorite holiday spend thanksgiving morning with cnn with live coverage of parades around the country and special guest appearances by chef bobby flay, the property brothers drew scott, the temptations t.i., the inside, the nba crew, andy grammer and more. >> john berman and erica hill host cnn thanksgiving in america live coverage starts at 8:00 on cnn berwick every year, millions of noses are ghosted by their plugins. >> new airwick advanced our groundbreaking plugin that pulses scent for staying power up to 60 days, plus a fragrance boost button. our noses won't be ignored again your best defense against erosion and cavities is strong enamel. >> nothing beats it. i recommend pronamel active shield because it actively shields the enamel to defend against erosion and cavities. i

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homes, we've learned that president biden has been briefed on these incidents, and tonight the fbi says it's investigating and taking all potential threats seriously. let's discuss with my source, andy mccabe, former fbi deputy director. andy, thank you so much for being with us tonight. from the scale and similarity of these incidents, it's fair to suspect that this was coordinated, right. what does it tell you about who may have carried it out boris, i think that's a logical assumption, but we don't have quite enough information to really be confident about that it's entirely while it's entirely possible this could be the same person or the same group of individuals who embarked upon this campaign of harassment and terrorizing um nominees in the new administration. >> but it's also possible that one person started it. others who weren't coordinated saw it and felt the same way and jumped on and then started to

engage in the same activity. so it's really too early in the game until we can start identifying some of who some of these actors. it's a little too early to say whether or not it's coordinated i'm wondering what kind of security cabinet picks usually get before they're confirmed not very much, to be perfectly honest, because let's remember, these folks have not been officially nominated yet because of course, the president elect has not yet the president. so this is a somewhat of a long term kind of a slow burn of a process if you will. we know that these are the expected nominees. i'm sure they will become that once the president is inaugurated so they don't qualify for any particular level of government security protection. i would assume most of them, particularly high net worth individuals, are engaging private security to try to help them through this time unfortunately, this has become a very common element of life for people who assume high

profile positions it is not something that we see, just targets. you know people of republican leaning or people of democratic leaning. it is across the board, kind of a campaign of low cost, easy to do harassment and terror and swatting specifically over the last decade has become so much more common, so much more prevalent. >> it originally started with these video gamers sort of pulling pranks, but now it's being used more often against, as you said, high profile individuals, including special counsel jack smith and the judge overseeing trump's federal election subversion case tanya chutkan it doesn't just pull away from law enforcement focusing on something that isn't a threat, but it could also be a danger in itself. we've seen some fatal accidents because of swatting. talk to us about the challenges for law enforcement to discern between a call that is simply a prank or an attempt to intimidate versus an actual

dangerous situation that that a swat team is required for sure so there's no question that this activity can create danger and risk for the people involved when you provoke an intense, kind of highly stressed law enforcement response, whether that's with a swat team or or any sort of response to a residence, there's always the possibility that wires get crossed. >> things happen and innocent people get hurt. so there they are, absolutely creating a danger here. we should also note that the burden of this activity is really falling disproportionately on the shoulders of local law enforcement. this is something that police police agencies and sheriff's offices deal with every day trying to protect the people that are within their jurisdiction. it is so common that they might be pretty sure that a call or an email or a communication along that engages in swatting is likely a hoax but they can't. they

can't just ignore it. they have to conduct some sort of activity to make sure that citizen is not in danger. so many law enforcement agencies have developed procedures where they they first respond very subtly. they may call the residents and engage in a conversation. they may send out a small patrol force to just look at the at the block and the residents to understand, to try to develop any intelligence to see if there's any actual activity going on at that place. and then, of course, bring out the big guns and the swat team. if that's necessary. but it is really it's something that law enforcement has had to adapt to. and it's really unfortunate total waste of resources and puts people's lives in danger. >> i also want to ask you about the bomb threats, because i remember during the closure of schools and local facilities in springfield, ohio over false accusations of residents there eating cats and dogs by president-elect trump there was a statement put out by officials that they suspected

foreign actors were being involved in starting these calls. would it surprise you if these bomb threats were coming from foreign actors? and how does law enforcement track that kind of activity of course, it wouldn't surprise me at all. >> we've seen it many, many times across a whole different range of targets. several years ago, like i think 2016, we saw a massive number of threats called into jewish community centers and synagogues across the country and ultimately we track that activity down to an individual who was actually located in israel so this is this is oftentimes when we are fortunate enough and work hard enough and are able to figure out who's behind this activity. we very frequently find it's foreign actors. now, whether or not that's state actors and people who are directed or supported by state intelligence agencies or just simply deranged individuals who happen to live overseas, you know that can be there's a

whole wide range of possibilities there. but law enforcement has to go into this really thinking that they begin with a global possibility of locations for the folks that are involved. >> andy mccabe thank you so much for the analysis and happy thanksgiving thanks for us. >> you too. >> ahead president-elect trump's promise to close the southern border and mass deportations has some immigrant rights activists taking action now. a daca recipient is my next source. stay with cnn cnn heroes, an all star tribute. >> meet and celebrate the honorees. then find out who will be hero of the year. plus, a special tribute to michael j. fox cnn heroes, an all star tribute. sunday, december 8th at eight on cnn. lie to everyone. >> risk your life on a daily basis. no glamor no exploding. watch the cia sends us out into the world to behave in entirely

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tv prize picks. run your game. >> probably should have told her we weren't real dr. oz i'm oren lieberman at the pentagon and this is cnn tonight. >> sources tell cnn trump's

team plans to use texas as a blueprint for his mass deportation plans while state leaders have often feuded with the biden administration on border patrol policies. trump plans to rely on those hardline border tactics being employed in the lone star state so that federal personnel can be freed up to detain undocumented immigrants within the united states. it's a plan that trump wants other border states to adopt as well. and as texas launches border patrol units on horseback and offers the government land for trump's mass deportation centers, immigrants asylum seekers and advocates are bracing for a new reality. my source is cesar espinoza, a leader in houston's hispanic community and the executive director of the largest immigrant led civil rights organization in texas. cesar, thank you so much for being with us. there are a lot of folks who rely on your advocacy group for help and information, and i understand that you've gotten a lot of calls since trump won the election. what are you hearing from those folks?

>> well, number one, thank you so much for having me. we are hearing a lot of people that are worried. we're hearing a lot of people that are uncertain of what their future is like for what we want people to understand is that many of the folks who are calling us have been folks who have been living here for well over 2 or 3 decades. so these are not newly arrived immigrants. rather immigrants who have lived here, who have contributed, and who are now very worried about what their future might be like in the next four years. >> some of those people like yourself, are in so-called mixed status families. they're made up of u.s. citizens and undocumented immigrants, and they're worried about family separations. what goes through your mind when you contemplate how you might react to something like that? and what do you tell others in a similar position well i mean, there's there's certainly a lot of worry. >> there's certainly a lot of a lot of uncertainty when you marry somebody or when you fall

in love with somebody. you know, it's really rare that somebody uh, really looks at the immigration status and says, well, you know, i'm not going to marry you because you don't have documents or things like that. so these are just, uh, you know, mixed families who have come together or fallen in love, who have, you know started families. i myself have a six year old child who's a us citizen and it's just there's a lot of uncertainty even for them to not to know that one day they might not have a parent here, one day they might have. we might have to uplift our entire uproot our entire family and move to a place that they don't know and that they don't call home. >> you were a daca recipient up until this summer when you got your green card. do you worry that your legal status may be at risk and that you could be deported you know, after i've heard throughout my entire life, i've heard, you know, why don't you just do it the

right way why don't you just apply for, for for citizenship and things like that? >> and it and i tried. i tried many ways. i consulted with hundreds of attorneys at this point, and it wasn't until, you know until five years ago when i met the love of my life that we got married. and then uh, we we barely started our process about two years ago, and i was able to get a green card now, but it took me 33 years to get to the point. and one of the things that boggles my mind and that we talk about with my wife, is the fact that after waiting for 33 years, after finally getting to this point in my life, i could very well be denied citizenship or even as a legal permanent resident could still be deported. >> so given the personal story, you just shared, i wonder how you respond to the argument from trump supporters and specifically those who immigrated to this country that they came here legally going through an ordeal to do it the

right way? and they argue that those who did not have broken the law and should be processed as criminals. what do you say to folks who have that perspective you know, in the case of of me, i was brought here as a young child at five years old. >> i couldn't decide whether i wanted to come here or not. i did, i went to school here. i started i set roots here in texas. um, and so it's a little bit different, but for some folks who came as older people, sometimes they have to make very tough decisions, leaving everything behind and trying to immigrate legally. my parents tried to immigrate legally, but unfortunately, uh the the backlog is so big that they that they would rather have come this way rather than have to having to wait 2 or 3 decades for god knows what could have happened so ahead of trump's deportation plans, several groups, including the aclu, are securing money and lawyers anticipating legal

challenges. >> is that something that feel is also preparing to do? >> we are looking for to partner up with organizations like aclu, maldef and other organizations around the country to challenge some of these policies. but more importantly, we are securing funding to make sure that our folks here on the ground, folks who are contributing every single day to american life, can at least have access to an attorney or have access to legal counsel, because we don't know how massive this project may be at the very end. >> susana espinosa, we appreciate your time. thanks for joining us and happy thanksgiving. >> thank you so much for having me. >> ahead, a new announcement from president trump, who he's just tapped to help end the war in ukraine and what that retired general might have in mind your parents have given you

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>> there are amazing things that are happening all over the world things that can make our lives better that's the goal of my podcast to try and find the secrets to a longer and happier and healthier life, and then we bring those secrets to you. listen to chasing life wherever you get your podcasts. >> new tonight president-elect donald trump has picked his longtime defense advisor, retired lieutenant general keith kellogg, to be his special envoy to ukraine and russia. that role, obviously, will be key in fulfilling a major campaign promise to end russia's invasion of ukraine. cnn is reporting tonight that trump officials will likely push for a cease fire early on in his second term to kick start negotiations that might end the war. my source tonight is retired air force colonel and cnn military analyst colonel cedrick layton. colonel, thank you so much for being with us on this thanksgiving eve. let's start with general kellogg and his plans to end the war he says he wants a negotiated settlement. what does that look like at this stage? >> yeah, that's really going to be interesting to watch, boris,

because a negotiated settlement would probably involve a cease fire that keeps things frozen the way they are at that moment in time. so let's say it happened right now. it happened tonight. then it would mean that the russians would occupy most of the donbas region, and the ukrainians would have a little piece of the kursk region in russia so that is a possible type of scenario, at least for the start of negotiations. the question is, are the russians going to be willing to accept something like this at this particular juncture because at the moment they seem to be gaining a little bit in terms of territory, in terms of the initiative. and of course, ukraine has manpower issues. it has weapons issues. and that's the kind of thing that could really put a damper on any administration's ability to affect negotiations. at this point in time. >> yeah. there's also the aspect of nato membership and general kellogg has said that ukraine perhaps should put off

joining the alliance for some time. vladimir putin sees a very differently. he thinks that ukraine should never join nato. is there any daylight there? >> well that's going to be an interesting thing. i personally think that ukraine has done more than enough to be a member of nato i think it would be the right reward for all their efforts in this, in this conflict. i the russians, that's kind of a red line for them. the russians don't want ukraine to be a part of nato. they see that expansion as even more threatening to them than the expansion that included finland and sweden over the past year and that that is something that you know, is is definitely a point of negotiating. but general kellogg, i think if he does, you know, assume this role as we think he will, that then becomes it becomes important for him not to give away the story if that's going to be a negotiating point. he should probably start with, well, we think it might be a good idea to have ukraine in nato at this point. >> president-elect trump has

made numerous statements about how quickly this war could end. we have a bit of a montage let me just put it a nicer way if i'm president, i will have that war settled in one day. >> 24 hours. we can turn it around again before i even arrive at the oval office, shortly after we win the presidency, i will end the war in ukraine. i will get it stopped very quickly of course trump is known for saying all sorts of things how realistic a timetable are we looking at? >> if there is going to be a negotiation and a cease fire? >> well certainly ending this war in 24 hours and making it stick is unrealistic. that's just not going to happen. what could happen is there could be a cease fire at some point in time within maybe the first few weeks of the new administration or even before. that could still happen under the biden administration, potentially but if it does happen, and there's

a lot of diplomatic work that would have to happen before that if it does happen, that does not mean that the war has actually ended. what we have to keep in mind is that the russians, boris, will probably look at this as being something where they can take a pause, regroup their forces and then start the offensive once again. they did it in 2014. you know, they took a piece of ukraine, crimea and part of the donbas in 2014, and they resumed their operations in 2022. they could do a similar kind of thing a few years down the road, and that's something that the u.s., no matter who's in charge, should try to avoid an unsettling potential scenario. >> colonel cedric leighton, thanks so much for being with us. happy thanksgiving. >> happy thanksgiving boris. thank you so much. appreciate it. >> next rfk jr. could be the next u.s. health secretary. and he's got some controversial stances on things like vaccines, fluoride and raw milk. my next source says there's a better way for public health officials to talk about those things. emily oster is here

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needs more explanation and nuance. emily oster is a professor of economics and international and public affairs at brown university, as well as the founder and ceo of parent data and recently she wrote an op ed in the new york times titled there's a better way to talk about fluoride vaccines and raw milk. emily, thank you for being with us. i want you to take us through the data on each of these three things that i mentioned. but first, i want to point to something you wrote in the piece, quote, simply saying that vaccines are good and raw milk is bad misses specifics that people find important. people often do their research, and if they feel the risk of raw milk has been exaggerated, it can erode their trust. so what's wrong, emily, with the way that public health agencies communicate i think the core issue here with these particular examples and with a lot of the rhetoric around rfk jr.'s possible appointment, is that we have lumped everything

into one piece rather than providing a more nuanced sense for people of the risks and benefits. >> my view is that public health messaging should help people understand how to make good decisions, and should explain to them why we're saying vaccines are good and raw milk is potentially more dangerous, and help them understand the magnitude of those beliefs. in the case of the measles vaccine we have decades of evidence on safety. it's enormously important and has saved millions and millions of lives. and many of the risks people are worried about are simply not there in the data. when we talk about something like raw milk, it is true that pasteurization lowers the risk of disease. but the disease risks are relatively small. these are just quite different in terms of their the quality of the evidence. and i think that people will be more responsive if we explain that nuance in our public health messaging, which we really do not often do. >> there is a a portion of his audience that is skeptical of

any public health advice, in part because they think it's some sort of psychological operation. the government is out to get them. it falls under the umbrella of that's what they want. you to think. so i wonder if there is a way to approach a conversation with those folks to get beyond the idea that someone is trying to trick them into giving their children autism through vaccines so i think in general, people will be more responsive if we try to help them understand the alternative perspective. >> but i also think here you could say there's a set of people who are not going to be responsive to this messaging, and i think that that's true. but there is a much larger set of people who are wondering about some of these questions. they are doing their own research they are going out and seeing papers and reading evidence. and there's a sense in which they're listening to one side, they're listening to the other side. and if one side is saying, you know, here's some evidence or here's why i think this and the other side is just saying, trust me, i'm an expert, a lot of people may

not want to trust that and i think that the side that is the science side has to be coming with information that people can use for their good choices. >> so you mentioned the measles vaccine. the background on data. there are raw milk and the benefits of pasteurization. what about fluoride in drinking water? because this one, there have been indications that fluoride can actually reduce iq in children. am i getting that right so at high doses, for example, the kinds of high doses that we see in naturally occurring water supplies in china and india and in some other places, we have seen reductions in iq. >> so certainly at high doses, fluoride does seem like it can be damaging, particularly to pregnant people. but when we look at the kinds of doses that we have in municipal water supplies in the u.s. there is a lot of evidence of safety. we don't see those kind of effects. and so that is actually a hard, nuanced thing

to explain that the dose is what's relevant. but we could explain it. i don't think it's impossible for people to understand, and it will help them navigate what is a really, frankly, quite complicated issue that i'm sure we will see much more discussion of over the next four years. >> i mean, that's part of the problem, right? that the science itself is complicated. the process of finding results in a scientific study, not easy. the same study can yield different results and so folks use shorthands at times to try to make good decisions. i wonder what you make of rfk jr. as health and human services secretary, being in a position to offer important medical advice for folks that are trying to make good decisions i certainly think there are aspects of his positions i'm very worried about. >> i think many people in the scientific community are really worried about the existing resistance to vaccines and how that will go over time, very

difficult to predict exactly where those things will land. but those are the pieces that i find most worrying about this possible appointment. >> emily oster we very much appreciate you sharing your perspective with us. thanks for joining us. >> thanks so much for having me. >> and happy thanksgiving. as well. don't forget to join cnn for the ultimate thanksgiving morning watch. we're featuring celebrity appearances, a live view of parades across the country. you can join our friends john berman and erica hill as they host thanksgiving in america. it starts this thanksgiving day at eight on cnn and streaming on cnn max. hey, thank you so much for joining us tonight. i very much appreciated your company. i hope you enjoy this thanksgiving and enjoy cnn newsnight, which is up next tonight, the ugly, the president elect's cabinet nominees face threats from the public while elon musk puts an x on the back of civil

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